This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Coming from you, that phrase strikes me as rather funny. Sorry to bother me."
11983 members | you are not logged in | 30 April 2017




Tweet







January 25 2017

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 4x11 "Wake Up". The episode was written by Drew Z. Greenberg and directed by Vincent Misiano.

Good episode, things moving quickly and they avoid (most) of the relationship drama cliches!

It is possible to feel bad for both Mays.

I still miss Hunter but Elena is getting to be a good taunter.

Talbot's not exactly wrong.
Ignoring Dusk's first post...
Nebula please skip. Sounds like Talbot is getting noticeable character development.
I wouldn't call it a new development. but not unimportant either.
They have a strange way of flirting?
Oh, they can upload memories? Why didn't that occur to me?
Ooh... Who is the second LMD? Talbot?
Duh duh duhhhhhhn! Who's the other LMD?!
This is so fun knowing I was thinking the same thing 3 hours ago!
Why is this Aida a murderbot when the other one wasn't?
Well going by past history the person replaced is Talbot.
If it's YoYo or Mac that's an LMD I think I'll be pretty angry...
The first Aida killed Nathanson, this Aida sees no issue with it or killing May now. Aida 1 would probably say the same.
I kind of missed Talbot and Phil's love fest.
Murderbot Aida is the one who read the Darkhold, isn't she?
Yeah, but who cares about Nathanson?
That's what I was thinking, re: the Darkhold.
I think Talbot just tried to get a hold of the Darkhold. If it's not him that's one heck of a diversion by the writers.

[ edited by JDL on 2017-01-25 04:22 ]
May's escape is a Matrix headgame.
That would make sense... her virtual reality is constantly fighting Aida to try and escape.

I think Mack might be the other LMD...
Nadeer is a monster.
Aida 1/Head read the Darkhold and took bullets for the team. Aida 2 is advocating to kill May and hasn't met the team as far as we know.
So, Mack is the least suspect suspect that we can most suspect.
It's weird how Coulson seems to get dumber whenever Talbot is around. It's like he's an IQ suck.
I have to say, I'm on Talbot's side with this one.
Oh heck, Radcliffe is the leaker. Have to work on the reason why though.

[ edited by JDL on 2017-01-25 04:43 ]
Love that Raina's up for an Oscar. Our baby sociopath has grown up!
Radcliffe is the leaker? Is AIda's head picking up on all of their plans and relaying them to Radcliffe?
Oh punch him on the face!
Is the leak also the LMD? I assume ...

Meanwhile nice "Matrix" call, RobynH!
I change my mind...it's Fitz, isn't it?
Yeah. I think it's Fitz, too.
OOoooooooooooooooohh.
Twisty-turny episode.
Is the Superior going to be Brett Dalton?
Nice. I knew it was Radcliffe but not that he had made an LMD of himself. Well done you sneaky bastard.
Radcliffe is a horrible horrible person.
I thought it was Fitz too for a minute there!
Ahhh! Next week looks great!
That was strangely satisfying.
Didn't we see a photo of "Hope" and wasn't she a lot older than 4 days? Or am I misremembering?
This was was a really great twisty episode.For some reason,I wasn't expecting it to be as great as it was.I just thought it wwould be the whoel episode being in May's mind but this was so much more.
Well I saw NONE of that coming. Why isn't it next week yet.
Back to Bahrain, nobody knows May killed the girl or that she was the real Inhuman menace. They all assume it was the mother and the girl was a hostage May couldn't save. Interesting for it to return now.
I don't remember hope being mentioned before this.
Ghost Rider Spirit mentioned Mack is angry because he 'lost hope' and we saw him crying at a picture once but we never saw the photo ourselves. It was never said who/how old she was until now.
I've been wondering how anyone new learned about Bahrain. It looks like Radcliffe could read her memories like a book. Much better ep than I was expecting.

[ edited by JDL on 2017-01-25 05:13 ]
Radcliffe is clearly using Dollhouse technology with these memory and personality transfers.
What did Fitz see that made him realize?
I don't know, but it must have been something because I realized it the same moment he did.
I think its when he said something about protecting lives being his first priority.
Enjoyable episode, although I do wonder where Radcliffe gets his funding — he must have had something prior to his alliance with the Senator and LMD/Dollhouse tech can't be cheap. Not to mention where he finds the time to build hardware, code, alpha- and beta-test, etc. (Wasn't he originally a specialist in DNA/microbiology? Quite the Renaissance Man, I guess.)

Did they film the happy ending to Bahrain during the original ep's shoot, or did they have to pick it up again and hope the young actor had not aged too much in the meantime?
Probably filmed it recently given she's credited again and the bad ending to Bahrain is core to May's character so they won't have needed to alter it until now.
Radcliffe's actions or no, you know that whatever tech he's created is going to end up being used by SHIELD at some point. That stuff is too valuable as a tool for them to let it being SO SO WRONG as a reason to junk it all. And I really hate Radcliffe for using that incident to mess with May and keep her trapped in that alternate reality.

I am glad that they ended the plot of Fitz and his Aida investigating without dragging it out. I was worried he was going to be just as obsessive as Radcliffe about her and lead him down a dark path. Why did I ever doubt!

Smidge annoyed that Coulson walked right into Nadeer's trap. He gets distracted when Talbot's around. They need to stay the hell away from each other. (And could Talbot get over himself, just a little. (And when I say they need to stay away, I mean, he needs to be on at least once a week so they can snark at each other because it's HILARIOUS.))
@Andrew Crossett: We never saw the picture, just the back of it that said "HOPE WAS LOST". I figured at the time it would turn out to be a child called Hope, so no surprise there.

The real May's experiences were kind of Dollhousey, while LMD May was going through some Battlestar Galactica season 1 Boomer stuff.

@tomg: The funny thing about the "happy ending" is that it wouldn't be a happy ending at all if it had actually happened. Because the little Inhuman girl was insane and evil and controlling everyone, so if May had killed the mother and everyone else and saved the girl, the girl would have continued to torture and kill people. Well, except it wouldn't have happened this way at all, since the girl would have driven May insane, too, instead of smiling serenely and letting people take her.

The "happy ending" isn't a What If? scenario, it's a complete fantasy based on what May was expecting and hoping. She thought the mother would be a bad guy and she would get to save the little girl. (I guess she did kind of get the second chance by being a substitute mother to Daisy, whose mother actually was the bad guy.)

On other note, wow! Someone in season 4 finally demonstrably had sex! What a rarity! (I mean, I'm assuming/hoping Fitz and Simmons have been doing it, but the one time they were shown in bed, they had clothes on and were chastely watching TV like a stereotypical 'old married couple'.)
Daisy had sex, back when she was Sky, with her fellow hacker boyfriend. May and Ward. May and Andrew during their vacation. Hunter and Bobbi. Coulson and Rosalind Price. I don't remember if we saw it, but it was pretty clearly implied that Daisy and Lincoln were doing the deed. The show hasn't been especially chaste.
Well that's why he said season 4.
It's a "she", but yes, I said season 4.

Mostly it was just me taking another opportunity to make a jab at the FitzSimmons scene. Not that I have a burning desire to see a sex scene between them or anything, but I found it annoying that two 20somethings who got together romantically a few months ago were made to look like a chaste old marrieds.

I may have also been using a chance to mock the show a bit for the hype about season 4 supposedly being "(darker and) edgier" and even "sexier" (IIRC at the Comic Con this summer Chloe Bennet and Liz Henstridge said there would be "sexy darkness") now that it's in a later timeslot, which has left me scratching my head.

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2017-01-26 08:02 ]
That ending was a real kick in the teeth. Well done.

Did they film the happy ending to Bahrain during the original ep's shoot, or did they have to pick it up again and hope the young actor had not aged too much in the meantime?


Filmed it again going by this tweet.

https://twitter.com/MingNa/status/824534000110669824
I'm glad they didn't keep us guessing who the second LMD in play was for more than this one episode. Though there could be more of 'em running around by this arc's or season's end.

As for where Radcliffe finds the time to program and build, well...I assume he's had Ava 1 & 2 doing a lot of the work to help him multi-task, plus if that Radcliffe double has been up and running for a while, then you'd hope it would've been put to work helping around the house as well. Building a copy of myself would be one of the first things I'd do in this scenario (at the risk of it going haywire and deciding to replace me with itself, permanently).
@Kris: Well, you'd program it to never do that.

Something I really like about this plot is that AOS, at least so far, is subverting the "robots go rogue" cliche by remembering the fact that they are essentially machines and cannot break free of their programming. If a robot starts acting 'evil', it's most likely they have been programmed that way by a human. Android May and Aida 1 and 2 have thoughts and feelings of their own, but android May can't break from the programming even when she tries to. That's far more interesting than portraying androids as simply synthetic humans, as it happens far too often in fiction.

Of course, it's possible that the show will have Android May beat her programming after all and then I'll have to eat my words, but I hope they don't go that predictable route. Even with human characters, the show has previously subverted the "power of love/friendship" cliche that brainwashed people (whether in the more literal manner or the more metaphorical/realistic manner) will turn around just because someone close to them gives them the "You can beat this" speech.

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2017-01-26 20:56 ]
If Radcliffe is so concerned about Aida killing people, though, why didn't he program her not to do it? (Aside from himself, of course.) You'd think somebody like him would have read his Asimov and know about the Three Laws and why they're a really, really good idea.

This storyline seems to be taking a little bit of Dollhouse, a little bit of BSG, and a little bit of Westworld the TV show and mixing it with the existing comic concept of the LMD. Although I'm pretty sure these episodes were written long before Westworld aired. Maybe Androids are the new Zombies.
@AndrewCrossett: I think the answer is that he's not *that* concerned about her killing people. He would rather avoid it if he can, but it's not an absolute "no", and he wants to have that option if necessary. Say, if it was him or one of the agents, he'd want Aida to kill the agent if there's no third option. He just has a problem with Aida thinking along the lines of "but why not make that our first, go-to option?"

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2017-01-26 15:58 ]
Thanks, Simon... although if they had filmed both endings way back then, I'd be really impressed by their foresight right now.
Whatever Radcliffe programmed Aida with could have believably gone out the window once she experienced reading the Darkhold (and could've been effected by whatever magical or advanced alien science it may contain), but since that was a misdirect, I'm good with how he's managed to keep her reigned in so far. That yes, they don't seem to be going the usual killer robot route here, so far (unless they get the comic book origins of Aida involved in subverting her program at some point this season).

I'm feeling like the Superior (Nadeer's shadowy boss or whoever is currently leading The Watchdogs) will be someone we know. But who could it potentially be if it's not that fallen SHIELD agent whose name I forget played by Titus Welliver ? They could bring Brett Dalton back, though I'm 50/50 on whether I want that. What would be the explanation ? That Hive made Radcliffe build a Ward body ? (why would Hive bither, though, unless he felt a particular attachment to Ward while residing in his body and accessing his memories). Hating on Inhumans also doesn't track with Ward's previous behaviour.

The answer's probably really obvious if we think about who makes sense, but I can't recall all the villains still in play. Quinn might make sense. He was a businessman and powered people and aliens arguably messed up his life the most (Garrett turned out to be a bad alliance). Plus if they do decide to tie up leftover villains from previous seasons, it'll help make this series feel whole/complete, should they decide to end it here or with a Season 5.

Talbot's son was brought up again in this current episode. Was he an Inhuman, or was he simoly imprisoned in the same amber-colored gel-cubes that Malick and company were using to trap Inhumans ?
@Kris: They've already revealed the cast list for the next two episodes, which include the information on who plays the Superior. I don't know if I should comnent any further, since anything I say, including who the Suprrior is *not*, could be seen as a spoiler.

Titus Welliver's character is Felix Blake, BTW.

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2017-01-26 21:08 ]
Talbot's son is just a regular kid taken hostage once.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.



joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home