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October 26 2016

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 4x05 "Lockup". The episode was written by Nora Zuckerman and Lilla Zuckerman. It was directed by Kate Woods.

Canada Report:

Simmons you might want to reconsider your language about Aida. You had a similar issue early on with the Inhumans.

One of the longer and better directed action scenes in a while.

Some interesting questions over the pasts of Robbie and The Director.

Mack he's a hothead why would you trust him even if you had to stay behind a second? Also with you on the needle thing.

Robbie your a hothead but did you not realize the cameras were still on?

More nihilistic Quake, Its starting to get old for me though.

One of the most interesting tags in a while.
Ah its good to be back.
Welcome back, all.
Oh and totally a shipper fakeout over Coulson and May. Just have sex already.
What are you watching? I'm at the flashback point in the barn or cellar of whoever has the book.
That was a bit from the Canada Report I forgot to put in, just wait.
Ah. I admit I scroll past the Canada report. ;)
"This is a safe place." Ha.
*Gasps in horror* How dare you Haha!
"You kill people while you're possessed and on fire."

Good line, Daisy :)
I scroll past the Canada report, too. Really hate spoilers right before the show airs. My mother used to hit anyone who did things like that!
I'm a fangirl too, Phil. Love the Cap inspired SHIELD shield.
@Dusk, sorry. I'm a horrible horrible person. ;P
@Nebula-It happens constantly in my house lol. I don't actually say anything major.
Fitz, trolling football like a pro!
Seems like Robbie doesn't really need the skull head.
So what's the purpose of the skull head, other than making him look demonic?
So what's the purpose of the skull head, other than making him look demonic?

My guess is that the ghosts are easier than actual humans for him, so when he goes all hothead he's needing more power.
This is the season of Simmons the bad-ass.
Yeah. Really loving Simmons this season.
I wonder what Jeffrey Mace's Inhuman power is? Just super strength? And what was his lie about his heroic act in Vienna?
I'm just curious what really happened in Vienna?
Robbie your a hothead but did you not realize the cameras were still on?

More nihilistic Quake, Its starting to get old for me though.


Robbie may have testosterone poisoning. He's driven by his emotions, and not so attentive to details.

Yeah. Getting tired of broody Quake. She's got to grow up to become the director of SHIELD.
Nice episode tonight.Very curious about Vienna.
So we need backstories on Mace and Robbie. Quake needs to meditate and eat some ice cream.
Just when I was starting to warm to Jeffrey a little, he goes and spoils it.
Maybe not, JDL. He may still be good.

On the other hand, my first reaction to him was that he's evil.
I think Mace is... morally grey. I think he has good intentions, but I also think he may be a bit of an "ends justifies the means" kind of guy.
Also curious about Vienna, was he supposed to be inside the building with Nat and Tchalla or at least nearby? Also, as an Inhuman, is Mace registered? - Doesn't seem like so.

You know what bothered me at the end, especially during the final scene? Maybe this issue is moot, considering we're over 3 full seasons and almost a half into the show, are we to assume that everyone knows that Phil's is alive? Emphasis on the Everyone.

I thought that was the issue why he couldn't be kept as the director with this more US government tied version of SHIELD, that also more PR friendly. Yes, it seems that high ranking members of the government are all aware that he's not dead, but does the rest of the world know that? When Nadeer biggest threat at the end seemed leaking to the press that SHIELD is working with "former agent / alleged terrorist" Quake, and not the fact that Coulson is also seen running around and the leak would also make that known to the rest of the world, it made me confused.

And with that we're heading into choppy November schedule, when we can expect at least 2 weeks without episodes.

#406 - 11/01
Election Break on - 11/08
#407 - 11/15
Dancing With the Stars Season Finale Break on - 11/22
#408 - 11/29 (Probably)

Hoping we'll get at least a 2-hour episode to compensate for them before the end of 2016.
There is going to be a David Blaine Special preempting AoS on Nov 15. My guess is that they show 4x07 on Nov 29th and 4x08 on
Dec 6th. As for a 2 hour special I can't see it and with no Agent Carter this year I bet they want 14 episodes for after X-Mas.
Considering the timeslot and the resulting ratings this year, I think ABC has already written off AoS as a dead show walking. I get the feeling they're burning off the season in order to get to the minimum needed for a syndication package. The show is getting Dollhouse-level ratings this year, time shifters or no time shifters.

If they haven't moved it to a better time slot by New Year, I'll know we're looking at the final episodes of the series.
Proof the Zurathos within makes the Ghost Rider always end up evil, regardless of the human's intention.

Okay, these ghosts were turned that way by the Bauers' misconduct, and mainly want to become solid again, but GR was brought along to destroy them instead. Reminds of the early Supernatural when the brothers used the Colt to blow away people who were possessed and not themselves evil.

I can see Daisy's desire to fight the Watchdogs her own way, but breaking off the door mechanism so she can't even get out was, well if it wasn't meant as evidence she was outright suicidal, then it was a stupid visual.
Mace was specfically chosen as a trustworthy and 'enhanced' leader so he's obviously known as an Inhuman, his name might not be in the hacked records along with Elena and Hellfire etc. though.

ABC as a whole is taking a ratings hit on dramas (comedies are relatively stable and Speechless is doing pretty good). Outside of the two Shondaland shows and Designated Survivor, the next highest is OUAT at a 1.0, in its sixth season no less. Hayley Atwell's new show is tanking hard and Notorious just got an episode order cut. SHIELD's timeslot can't get much worse unless it were Sundays at 9:00. I'd say S5 would be the end, possibly S7 for OUAT as well. They are at least established while the others are only 1 or 2 years in.

[ edited by Dusk on 2016-10-26 15:58 ]
@Numfar PTB I think it's just possible that Nadeer (is that the spelling?) didn't know who Phil was. He wasn't the important figure to her in that image, since the world does know who Daisy is, as Quake. She's feared.

Although, I do have to wonder if Fury was sending Phil to TAHITI and knew he'd most likely recover, why would he paint him in a corner by declaring him dead to the rest of the world? (And I mean his cello playing girlfriend. It's one thing for the Avengers to think he's dead, since Fury did use Phil to get them to move their asses, but that's one of those, "do the thing and ask for forgiveness later" decision.) There really wasn't any reason to basically force post Avengers Phil to have to live so far under the radar because he's publicly dead. Even if he wasn't sure the TAHITI thing would work, maybe hold off on making it official until you know for sure? As a secret agent I doubt Phil had a large space in the public eye that needed to be answered for. If that makes any sense.

I have a feeling the other Avengers still have no idea.

I know the likelihood is nil, but what Marvel MCU character would fit best in a cameo this season? I'm kinda thinking either Fury or even Steve Rogers, who like Daisy, is pretty much on the run now. (Mostly I just want Steve Rogers to steal Fitz and Simmons for his team. ;P )
@NYPinTA - Joss originally planned for Coulson to resurface in AoU but that arc was cut once he discovered how much he was going to have to deal with.

@AndrewCrossett - The ABC Network gets nothing from syndication, the studio does. They won't do anything to further that aim unless ordered to by Disney and that is by no means assured.
@DaddyCatAlso: She IS suicidal, we already knew that. She basically tried suicide by Ghost Rider in the season premiere.

@Numfar PTB, @NYPinTA: Yes, fans tend to forget that Coulson is not a celebrity. He was just an agent of SHIELD before SHIELD fell apart, and when he was its Director, it was when SHIELD was a rogue organization and Coulson officially dead. There's no reason why every member of the US Senate would know him by sight.

@NYPinTA: It's not just Fury. Coulson himself decided to keep lying - not just to the world, but to Audrey specifically.

I used to intensely dislike that plot, because I hate it when guys do the "I'm lying to her for her own good" trope and it's treated as something positive - it's patronizing and overall crappy. She deserved to know the truth. But rewatching season 1 has changed my opinion up to a point, because now I think that it's not necessarily presented as something positive - it may just be something we can make up our minds about. (But that's always the tricky question with this show: are we always supposed to take protagonists' actions as positive, unless they are explicitly called out as being negative? It's the tricky 'depiction vs endorsement' thing.) Coulson decided to not tell Audrey he was alive and gave two reasons for it in his conversation with Fitz: that she is already getting over his death and continuing her life and he shouldn't disrupt that, and that he his job as an Agent of SHIELD so he can't really be with her anyway. The first reason is obvious BS and doesn't even make sense just by itself - of course she would be happier if she knew he was alive and if they could be together - and it only makes sense if Coulson is already assuming he wouldn't be able to be with her for real. So, it's all about the second reason, his job. But in the very next episode, Maria Hill tells Coulson there is no SHIELD anymore, and they should all just go their own ways and try to lead their lives (just like she has already found a job with Stark Industries). But Coulson couldn't accept that, and decided he must continue as agent of SHIELD, even if he is a vigilante from that point on, rather than a member of a legitimate and accepted organization. What's interesting is that what Hill told him meant that he was perfectly free to go and be with Andrey, since he didn't really have a job anymore, and could try to rebuild his life a different way. But he never considers that option - not for a second. It never even occurs to him.

This is what makes me think that Coulson didn't tell Audrey he was alive because he was really always aware, deep inside, that the relationship, or any relationship he would have with someone from a different world than SHIELD and the field it operates in, someone leading a "normal" life, would never work out. Because SHIELD is not just his job, it's his life and his identity, and the only family he has. He would never know how to function without it.

Which reminds me of one of my favorite early season 1 meaningful-in-hindsight/foreshadowing lines, which is also an example of the "Villain/Jerkass Has a Point" trope - Ian Quinn telling Skye in episode 3 that it's not surprising that SHIELD has recruited her, since she fits the "profile" of people they recruit: "You're a criminal. You have a warrant somewhere. A specialized skill set. No family (...) That is what these people do, SHIELD they prey on fear and loneliness and desperation, and then they offer a home to those who have no one else to turn to. That's obviously not true of May, or Fitz or Simmons (who have a mother and parents, respectively, though we extremely rarely hear about them), but apart from Skye/Daisy, it's 100% true of Ward as we see in the flashbacks of how Garrett recruited him into SHIELD/Hydra (they were basically the same thing for a long time, after all), and it's also true of Coulson to an extent - maybe not the criminal record part, but certainly the lack of family part.
The ABC Network gets nothing from syndication, the studio does. They won't do anything to further that aim unless ordered to by Disney and that is by no means assured.

The distributor is ABC Syndication. The show will definitely run to the end of season 4, even if they have to show it on Sunday mornings. There's lots of money to be made on syndication, especially overseas.
The distributor is ABC Syndication. The show will definitely run to the end of season 4, even if they have to show it on Sunday mornings. There's lots of money to be made on syndication, especially overseas.,

@AndrewCrossett - My point was that the Network gets no benefit from syndication but that ABC studio does. I have no problem with the assumption that they will get a full S4 and never meant to suggest otherwise.
But syndication money will not help unless Disney steps in. These companies are treated as individual entities for sound business reasons. Further if there are still minority stockholders thay are legally obligated to do so.
So many comments and nothing about the Quentin carnival poster, Motorcycle and the leather jacket?

I'm disappointed. Where are my Ghost Rider fanbros? ;)
So far, this season bores me. Am I missing something? The whole plot with the ghosts looks like a monster-of-the-week plot stretched through several episodes, but maybe it is leading to something big? Big enough that it justifies neglecting the characters and spending so much time on the boring A-plot?
So many comments and nothing about the Quentin carnival poster, Motorcycle and the leather jacket?
I'm disappointed. Where are my Ghost Rider fanbros? ;)


Between the two Nic Cage movies many of those fans clawed their eyes out and no longer can participate in viewing AoS. Sad that.
Ragondux, while I've liked the season as a whole just fine (because the ghosts haven't always been the focus -- we've had Watchdog and Ghost Rider-heavy eps as well), I've been ready for the reveal and pay-off on the ghost arc for about three weeks now. It's not interesting enough to justify this much space in the season.

If it's only being done to have magic in it so that AoS is like Dr. Strange without tying directly into that film...how pointless.

I'm also looking forward to the season's subtitle not being "Ghost Rider" for its second half. He can join the team and still be a part of it, he's been a fun addition, but I'd love if they gave us another headliner arc or two after November.
I had been staying out of here because I'm loving this season so very much. Nice to see nothing has changed and still no one understands the true economics behind a show like AOS.

Back in S1 when (a pessimistic few) were predicitng imminent cancellation, I said it would get a 2nd season. It did.

In S2 when it was DOOM DOOM DOOM, I said it would get a third AND fourth season. It did.

I'm predicting 7 seasons easy at this point. Ratings are meaningless when the show is completely paid for with streaming and international sales. Carry on.
@IrrationaliTV - I hope I am not being counted as one of the doomsayers ! :) Anyway you seem to be intimating that the
license fee is extremely low, so low that whatever the fee is, it outweighs any of the current negatives of the show such as
providing a weak lead-in to the affiliates 11:00 news shows.

Speaking of spillover benefits, by moving the show to 10 there is at least no longer any effect on other ABC shows as a lead-in.

I do have one question though. Many in the various fan communities seem to think that the show is expensive to make.
I do not (unless the CGI is waaaay costlier that I think it is). I think its pretty normal for a LA based show, but that's
just the guess of an old fart bean counter. Can you shed any light on this ?
JDL, I have no idea what the budget of the show is. I could guess a range but it would be pure speculation. I don't see how it is more expensive than any other hour long drama. Special effects don't cost what they used to. I am also not saying anything about the license fee the network is paying. I'm sure there is no AMC/Walking Dead nonsense going on because that is very shady and will get lots of lawyers involved. What I am saying is that the people (really) in charge look at both sides of the equation and take into account the net impact to Disney as a whole and not just the network or the studio.

Also, no one is listening to the affiliates if they are bitching which I don't think they are. AOS is FANTASTIC compared to what they have had in that timeslot for the last several years.

Once again, ABC has way more problematic shows than AOS (Notorious and Conviction are both DOA) which is a solid performer appealing to exactly the kind of wealthy educated demos that advertisers love and that international networks/streaming services love to buy.

[ edited by IrrationaliTV on 2016-10-29 01:31 ]
@IrrationaliTV - Dagnabbit I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. It's just that you seemed sure and the only way to do
what you were describing at all easily would be for the studio to set a lower than normal license fee. The only other way
(afaik) would be for the network to make a decision that was optimal for Disney but sub-optimal for it. In academia this is
known as the transfer pricing dilemma and it has torn companies apart since the 1870's. It can be done but in my day
(old fart remember) it almost always had to be imposed from above. However your reply makes it clear that that is exactly
what is being done here. Huh !

Interesting point about the various demo's. I knew that they divide them by smaller age brackets as well as by sex but it
never crossed my mind that they might go farther and in hindsight it darn well should have. Thx for the guidance.
Having finally watched the episode, I have to say that this is a great season so far. It's really well put together and the stunts and fights are fab.
Some past Jossverse sightings in this episode.

Rolando Molina, who played the old gangbanger Robbie burned in his cell, played Bolles in the Firefly episode "War Stories." He's the guy who was buying the stolen medicine but got shot before the transaction was completed.

Brandon Keener, who plays the agent giving Simmons the lie detector test, played Lance Brooks (RJ's older brother) in the Buffy episode "Him."

And Lili Birdsell (Lucy Bauer) was in the Angel episode "Lonely Hearts" as Sharon Reichler, one of the hosts of the body-hopping demon.

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