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September 28 2016

(SPOILER) Discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 4x02 "Meet The New Boss". The episode was written by Drew Z. Greenberg and directed by Vincent Misiano.

Apparently they're doing a live Facebook chat again. "Q&A with the new Director".

Hehehe, saw it again! And the promo for October 11th, though from the sounds of it this is Canada's last early broadcast.

When a little kid says don't go over there, listen to him!

They're really keeping with the gore/horror stuff.

Daisy, pissing off flaming head is not the way to get intel.

Phrasing Agent Piper!

Yay Ax-Gun!

Stop rubbing salt in the Agent Carter wound.

Did not see that coming with the Director.

[ edited by Dusk on 2016-09-28 02:24 ]
I guess we don't have to watch now!

Going to have to move to Canada to avoid Dusk's spoilers.

And that other thing, too.
Trust me I left out a lot. Though I do wonder about the snuffle thing...
I'm not ready for Halloween!
Famous last words, Coulson. Someone once thought no one could take the sky from them either...
Way to poke the bear, Daisy.
Ballsy but that's still *your* van Daisy...
Daisy is like me. She knows how to piss everyone off.
Oh god, he's catch phrase guy.
Which makes him evil.
I love how adorable Simmons can make thinking how dumb Mac's idea is.
The new director is wondering where that unlimited funding came from, too.
And there was Dusk's Agent Carter reference. Ugh!
Pretty sure Coulson did not turn over the toolbox if Hack-man is worried that much about funding.
Where did that unlimited funding come from?
As he should. Because that's weird. And as much as I agree that an agency like SHIELD, and the agents there in, shouldn't whine about checks and balances inter agency considering how Hydra was able to flourish in their ranks... a guy that's mainly concerned with "optics" is also vulnerable. So, I'm not so easily swayed that he must be evil just because he split up the team and makes them abide by actual rules and all, or even for the catch phrase thing (although that does make him mightily suspect ;) ) but not completely on his side either.
Heeehheee. I like Piper.
Oh Phil. Still a fanboy.
These ghosts are freaking me out. I wonder who the "he" is they're out to get.
Robbie's Uncle ?
They could really use the Winchester boys in this ep.
So both of them are possessed. I thought May was off.
This is so cool! I think I'm going to like this season.
Is this a new version of Super-Patriot?
Nebula its looking that way.
Deleted, because...

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2016-09-28 03:58 ]
Two weeks? BOOOOO!!!!
VP Debates ! Yay ?
Yeah, I think the new director is the MCU version of this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Mace

No episode next week. Is there a debate or something? This show keeps getting screwed over by politics...
I can't believe we are getting a break after just the first two weeks of the season.

So the new director is an Inhuman and it was Coulson's idea to put a powered person in the position of director.

I thought this was great followup to the premiere.
I kind of thought the director might be some version of him, because it's tied to another story thread, and makes sense given Civil War.
Tuesday is a horrible night for this show. I really wish we can cancel election day and just watch AOS.
I really like the way the new season reset is going. All the new story threads look interesting.
Yeah the show's pretty strong right now and even a few comic fans who dropped it are considering checking back in but these breaks do not help.

Don't think the Director is evil just objective in a way Coulson never really has been at least not since after Winter Solider.
I think the Director has ties to the Watchdogs, but maybe he won't be the character I think he is.

He may not be evil, but he will do awful things, thinking he's right.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2016-09-28 04:17 ]
Doubt he's with the Watchdogs if he's an Inhuman.
We'll see.

Poor May!
'Doing awful things thinking they are right' could describe Robbie and maybe even Daisy right now. At certain points May and Coulson too.

[ edited by Dusk on 2016-09-28 04:20 ]
With the mention of the Book of Darkhold, we're now getting into magic. I wonder if they're going to cross over with Doctor Strange this season?
Pretty sure doing awful things because they think they're right is the definition of a Director.
It's pretty much the definition of most people.😀

I think we are getting into Dr. Strange territory now, AndrewC.

Researching this, looks like Ghost Boxes are a thing in Marvel comics.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2016-09-28 05:06 ]
Solid 2nd episode ... Ghosty Types are time slot appropriate creepy, I did NOT see the Director twist coming, and I have to tip my hat ... the VFX folks have really nailed Ghost Rider's look.

Found it kind of odd they just let Daisy walk (she's a fugitive right?) and frankly I'm at my wits end with this entire team never telling anyone anything .... That May doesn't mention she's seeing zombiepeoples just seems like the worst kind of ridiculous.

Overall the season seems on steady ground - which given the eclectic elements thrown together is pretty surprising
Box Ghost https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUqeC2UU4oE
Can't access that in the US, Dusk.
@TallMichaelJ: I can actually kind of accept May not telling anyone about the zombiefaces. She clearly sees "them" as an infecting force that is attacking and usurping her friends and colleagues, and she wants to save them from "them," but in her mind, she cannot let "them" know that SHE knows "they're" there. So she keeps it quiet so as not to tip her hand to "them."

. . . Did that make any sense?

Point being, in the context of the story, I actually get why she kept it quiet. And in the context of a viewer, even though I hate the plot device, I think it makes sense, AND I appreciate that the ruse didn't last past the second episode. Would have been bored/annoyed to no end if they'd just dragged it out for 4-5 episodes.

Likewise with Daisy . . . Mac and Fitz had exactly ZERO ability to contain Daisy if she decided to walk, so they didn't try to stop her. Again, makes sense.

As for no one telling anyone anything ever . . . yeah, in previous seasons, it's frustrated the Hell out of me, but the new director provides an actual plot-relevant reason for it this go around, and I approve. Basically, I think the writers have stepped up their "backstory/underlying motivation" game this year, and it's upped the plot and characterization quality all around.

As a side note, thank @#$% they didn't try to stuff some Aida side story into this ep. Much rather get to that a little later.
Okay, so they name-dropped someone named Tobias Ford in this ep (when Simmons was explaining to Fitz and Mac that the ghost they caught on camera may be in a similar situation to Tobias Ford) and I figured it was a name we as the audience were supposed to know, so I looked it up on the AoS wikia -- turns out there's no way most people are gonna remember that name because he was in one of the most forgettable episodes of Season 1. Possibly the most forgettable ? Because I barely remembered it even with a synopsis in the wikia. It sounds like some other show. That Season 1 episode was called "Repairs".

Does anyone remember whether anything significant happened in that ep aside from the filler A plot ? Was there an interesting B plot, or was there at least something crucial revealed about one of these main characters in it ? Geez, Season 1 had more mediocre eps and filler than I remembered.

Wow, diving right into the magic and mysticism, by the looks of things. Just please don't have the actual devil/Satan ever be confirmed to exist in the MCU and don't legitimize any one religion/mythology over another in these shows and films...use Mephisto and the like, if there absolutely have to be demons in the MCU at some point.

Ghost Rider is so cool-looking/so well-rendered.

I like the new director, so far. Always thought Jason O'mara was hot. Not sorry that I neglected to try out his failed sci-fi show "Terra Nova" for more than a couple episodes, though.
'Repairs' was an OK episode. Tobias Ford caused an industrial accident involving a machine that was trying to be used to
generate a dimensional rip. He ended up caught between realities, phasing in and out so there were similarities to tonight.
Ah, sorry. It was just a joke anyway.
0.9 rating.

I don't see it staying in that time slot for long, unless they've already decided this season will be the last.
Fox owns the rights to Ghost Boxes, they originated in X-Men.
@Kris I have a feeling that all the magic will eventually be explained as being something not magic at all. But tying into Doctor Strange would be cool, IMO. Although I highly doubt it would include a cameo by Benedict Cumberbatch... but who knows. He is a fan of photo-bombing. ;)

Although I like Jason O'Mara, I will miss the hate banter between Coulson and Col. Talbot.
Is that specified in the contract language? At any rate, they can still be the same thing. They
ll just call it something else, or alter their origin in some way, kind of like making a bunch of mutants Inhumans instead.
Tobias Ford is the key to opening all the portals to all other dimensions.
I believe so. No one actually knows, as far as I know, what the contract actually says, but characters/concepts that first appeared in an X-Men or Fantastic Four comic are pretty much Fox's. It's why all the mutants that have shown up as Inhumans so far have had their first comic appearance in a non x-men issue. There's always weird exceptions of course.
The best idea I've heard about rights is that it's not about first appearances or anything like that. It's a list of names. When the first contracts were signed, there were long, long lists of names designating which characters they had the rights to. That makes the most sense based on what I've seen of how lawyers do things.

Of course, there's no way to know for sure. Even people in the industry seem to have contradictory ideas of how it works. One writer for Marvel's "Spider-Gwen" comic explained something about why he did things a certain way by saying it was a character rights issue. However, his explanation of how rights work was so bizarre, I don't think it's even worth repeating here.
I really liked this episode. It felt very Dr Who in places.
@Simon: Because stubborn man "has to do" a certain thing that the playful woman "accompanying" him doesn't understand because he refuses to explain and she has to force him into the direction of a solution but ultimately he with his "wacky" abilities has to (sort of) save the day then storms off and does a mysterious thing before they eventually ride off into the sunset together, quarreling? Oh and also there are weird ghostly people who got trapped in this state due to some messed up experiment?

I don't see the relation. (the "ghosts" totally gave me visual flashbacks to the dead people from Under the Lake)
I have been advocating Agents of SHIELD for all three of its previous seasons to anyone who had tuned out. With that being said though, I pulled the plug myself after this episode. I know it's very early in the season, but none of the characters are acting like the ones I fell in love with. After everything they've been through, there's rarely any recognition of even friendship among the team. I realize that they've been split up, but there would be more commiserating than there is.

Also, I feel like there's a new feel being forced onto the show because of the new time slot. This to me is just a ploy to gain a new and slightly different audience. And while it's great that they want to branch out, to me it doesn't even feel like the show I defended for three years. I have nothing against them bringing a mystical sense to the show, especially if they connect it with 'Doctor Strange', but I feel like the change is being forced because of a time change rather than plot reasons.

I will keep reading the reactions on this site to see if it swings back toward the show I know and love. Hopefully I will have a reason to binge watch it after the fact.
My biggest issue with the show right now is that all the plotlines I cared about are now resolved or forgotten. I was intrigued by May, by Skye's past, by how Coulson had survived, and interested in how Fitzsimmons would evolve. I like that they didn't wait for 10 seasons before resolving plotlines, but haven't they forgotten to create new engaging ones? They're doing fine with Ghost rider and SHIELD, but I need to care about people too.
"You're an engineer Mac. Also a small tank". Hee.
^ I love Fitz. But I also like that he refuses to let anyone talk bad about themselves.
@Kris: This doesn't have an awful lot to do with season 4, but since you've asked about Repairs and I've rewatched it quite recently, I'll answer.

I've been rewatching season 1 (I'm at ep 19 now), and I feel the opposite. I've never hated the early episodes or thought they were really bad (other than a couple of them - episode 2 with Lenor Varela is really boring, and I despise the Lorelei storyline in Yes Men) - though that may be because I binged watched the show the first time around, instead of watching it in real time. But I've found that season 1 generally feels much better on rewatch than the first time. Once you know where it's going, many things read completely differently, especially things Ward is doing or saying, and you can spot a lot of little clues and foreshadowing in random lines etc. that I didn't see the first time around. Aside from intentional foreshadowing, in terms of things that weren't planned the first time around, there are even things from the early episodes that were heavily referenced at the end of season 3 and that I won't be able to ever see the same again (Skye's line to Ward about "pieces solving the puzzle", for instance, will never not be creepy now).

That said, Repairs is still one of the least interesting and memorable season 1 episodes. It didn't have any arc stuff in it, it was fully focused on the episode's standalone storyline, which wasn't particularly fascinating. One of the more interesting things about it was that it had a guest character (Hannah) who was a deeply religious person, as well as genuinely compassionate and nice, but her beliefs and views weren't mocked, though the other characters didn't particularly agree with them, either. I think that was the first time religion was brought up on the show, and it was treated pretty neutrally. Most of the character stuff in the episode was focused on May, and Skye to a lesser extent. That was the time when there was a lot of tension between the two of them, and Skye was pretty open about disliking May's attitude, in this case how she was treating Hannah. Skye sympathized with Hannah a lot (explaining how terrible Hannah feels, because she has so much empathy and feels responsible for so much loss of life), and on that occasion we got to find out a bit more about her past - that she grew up surrounded by a nuns in the orphanage, and while she couldn't really believe in God as traditionally seen, she chose to think that "God is love" (geez, she has changed so much over 3+ seasons). But mostly, the episode was focused on May, and it was the first time we got to hear some of her backstory and hints about what happened in Bahrein, and that she wasn't always as closed off and apparently cold.

Anyway, it turned out that Hannah actually wasn't responsible for any of the accidents that had happened - it was her co-worker Tobias Ford, who was one of the people who died in the initial accident she was blamed for, and was then trapped between dimensions, and who was violently attacking anyone he saw as a danger to her. It also turned out that, back when he was alive, Tobias had reported Hannah (who was the supervisor) for the damage on the machinery multiple times. ("He pretended to be her friend, but he had it in for her", observed Ward when Skye told him what she had found.) In the end, it also turned out that he was the one who caused the damage - in a particularly messed up and childish attempt to get her attention, because he had a crush on her, and apparently trying to do it in a regular way like talking to her and asking her out didn't occur to him.

I still thought the episode was largely forgettable, until one moment near the end, which was unexpectedly interesting and thematically relevant, in hindsight. Tobias wasn't sticking around because he couldn't leave, or even because he had a thing for Hannah - it was because he hoped that she could save him. Like Marcus Daniels/Blackout in "The Only Light in Darkness", who thought Audrey (aka the cellist) was his "only light in the darkness" and said things like "I'm a monster, but you're the one who can save me", which was pretty obviously thematically relevant in that episode. They had this exchange:

Tobias: I thought, if you forgive me, I may not go to Hell.
Hannah (sadly): Only God can forgive you.

Which is a damn good point - he got a lot of people killed, and it's pretty messed up to ask someone to forgive you for what you've done to OTHER people. I don't think anyone even has the right to do that. You can forgive someone for hurting you personally, but others? That feels wrong. (And BTW, this is why I've always had a major problem with Buffy/Angel post-season 2, particularly Amends, where she goes: "I know everything you did, because you did it to me" and I'm like "Uh...no. He hurt you an awful lot, but he did even worse to Jenny, Theresa, Giles and a bunch of other people.")

But this was followed by May's big speech, which was... odd. The only useful thing she said to Tobias was to let Hannah go if he cared for her, which he eventually did, and disappeared. But the rest of her speech was something like "And God won't forgive you. But clinging to your old life, to the person you thought you could be, that's Hell".. Damn, May, this doesn't sound awfully comforting. And this is why you're not the one to talk to people about their problems and emotional issues. We were clearly supposed to see what she's talking about herself as well and that she has a lot of self-loathing. And afterwards, when Coulson asked her what she told Tobias, she said it was the same thing he told her in Bahrein. Which makes me wonder, which part of it? Because if all of that were things he said to her, no wonder she's so emotionally messed up, and then Coulson clearly shouldn't be talking to people about their problems, either.

Oh, and it was also confirmed at the beginning of that episode that May and Ward had been boinking, though that should have been obvious at the end of the previous episode already. And we got a good, clear shot of shirtless Ward coming out the shower - that should count as memorable. ;)

[ edited by TimeTravellingBunny on 2016-10-01 20:07 ]
While I actually enjoyed this episode more then the first one, I am concerned about the direction too. I think though that the separation and out of character behavior is laying ground work for a bigger story. At least I hope. They have all been through a lot. This season feels a little like Buffy S6 where the characters are struggling to find their place after so much has happened and is still happening.

I think the FitzSimmons will "science the $%*t out of" the supernatural stuff soon. Those poor people are untethered almost like Jason Wilkes in Agent Carter last year. Maybe the two stories are related somehow.

But I am concerned. Little things bothered me, as they do. How the heck did Daisy hold on to the top of a car running down the highway when MythBusters busted it (16 yr old son tipped) and her arm was fractured? Daisy's make up and punk chain necklaces are just weird. And while I liked the Ghost Rider more this episode, he was still way too over the top for my taste. I mean that car is ridiculous driving on LA streets? I've always enjoyed the lower key front Shield and the Inhumans have mostly used in public. I guess I like my super heroes with a little less chrome. Maybe they tried for less, but the car looked liked Dean's Impala.
TimeTravellingBunny, thank-you for the response and the awesomely detailed description. :) Much-appreciated. I didn't get around to visiting Whedonesque again and catching up until just now.

"Oh, and it was also confirmed at the beginning of that episode that May and Ward had been boinking, though that should have been obvious at the end of the previous episode already. And we got a good, clear shot of shirtless Ward coming out the shower - that should count as memorable."

Yep, that sure makes it worth a re-watch, heh heh. :)

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